Inside the Angle Drive; Proper Belt Tension

42125 Views 182 Replies 26 Participants Last post by Clifford maxey, Sep 14, 2021

lilb93

Discussion Starter · Jul 9, 2016 (Edited)

Just remembered (Lucky I remember anything have a bad case of CRS) back in 1964 had a new Dodge Coronet 440 3 speed on the tree. Got it at Reedmans in Langhorn Pa. A whopping 2126.00.. The transmission would Howl just like the sling Final drive does. Took it back and They said just like Polaris that's normal transmissions make noise. Back then there was no recalls. Talked to other dealers and the same thing, You have to live with it.
At that time was a salesman on the road and happened to stop at an old dodge dealer in Gordon,PA
talked to an old mechanic there and he said we have the fix for the dodge manual noise. I was all ears.
He said just change out the 90W gear oil for 10W ATF and run it 100 miles and change it again and your done. Took that with a grain of salt.
Well a few weeks later since it was getting louder. Wow it worked ZERO noise.
Anyone want to try it here??
I will try it next week, 6 Grand kids are in for vacation and whatever hair I had left is now all gone.

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WI_Hedgehog

· #2 · Jul 9, 2016

Basically that would burnish or "wear in" the gears/bearings more quickly. It can make things more quiet, but will add premature wear (and lash or "slop") to the driveline. On an older unit if you push it hard with the thin oil it can form leaks.

Not saying it's good or bad, just explaining what happens.

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lilb93

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jul 9, 2016

I don't believe it would. The soft spot on the final drive (Only in my own opinion) is the Crush sleeve on the Pinion. Depending on what material they made if from, when one punishes the pinion it can lead to the perload going to nothing and then the pinion seal fails. That seems to be the most failures on the unit, but reading there have been some output seals that failed also. You would have to get rid of the Crush sleeve and install a spacer and shims and that would forever take away the any doubt of preload going loose. Could that be the whole problem? Probably all the bearings were made by the cheapest supplier they could find.

Wolf

· #4 · Jul 9, 2016

@lilb93 do you change back to the original oil as the final step?

lilb93

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jul 9, 2016

I did not try it yet with the ATF, if it would work I would leave it in. 98 percent of all transfer cases only use ATF.

lilb93

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 9, 2016 (Edited)

I did notice on another thread of a case splitting on the Pinion. What would cause it? Bearing Failure from Preload. There is a tremendous load of stress on it in acceleration, The pinion wants to push it self out of the case. Not just on the SS that is any rear ever made. You have a inner bearing and an outer bearing sitting in there cones. The SS uses a crush sleeve to bring the two bearings together. You install the outer bearing then the pinion seal first put the Pinion thru the case with the crush sleeve on it. Then you install the Drive shaft yoke on and tighten the nut (NEVER USE AN AIR GUN) NEVER NEVER NEVER. You tighten it by hand till you have 7" pounds of rolling torque. If you have 8 or more remove it all again, replace the seal and crush sleeve and start over. A crush sleeve cannot ever be used twice. That's why when I rebuild a rear and it calls for a crush sleeve I make a sleeve and shim it till i get the correct bearing preload. Until you have that perfect you cannot move to the next step of the ring perload. Then you have to worry about the Pinion height. To properly do a rear it sometimes takes 8 to 10 hrs. Yes I did a few in 2 to 3 hrs. There few and far between.
Every car and truck manufacture gives you a bearing preload and a carrier preload.
You can only measure the carrier preload thru the pinion, Polaris only gives you a pinion preload NOT a carrier preload. Polaris wants 7" lbs of rolling torque, Given the size of the ring gear and bearings and there ratio of the angle drive 2.313:1 a pretty good guess would be 17 to 20" lbs of carrier perload measured at the pinion. Again measuring it you have to remember to divide it by the ratio of 2.313. You still there or did I loose you..

There are 1000's of videos showing how to properly set up a ring and pinion. And about 2 or 3 there that are 100% correct. If I can find a good one I will post the link.

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Blitzkrieg

· #7 · Jul 9, 2016

It's interesting because I think the noise drives some nuts (I can tell it's something you really don't like), some I think don't care one way or another and others (well maybe just one - me) like it because I am used to driving vehicles that whine and make mechanical noises.

I personally (and this is just my opinion) would be really nervous about pulling the gear fluid out and putting in ATF fluid.

I get where you are coming from - speed up the break-in. But man makes me nervous.

lilb93

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jul 9, 2016

NERVOUS?? Only when you hear a helicopter's over head and the swat team surround your house then I would be nervous. What break in??? That"s Polaris bull. When you buy a new car, truck, motorcycle. Big warning on the dash" rear will make noise till broke in". I think not. Personally im half deaf, and I play the radio almost full blast. It's the people that I gave a ride to that says what the hell is all the whine noise. Maybe it will never be without noise even if it was setup perfect, For one it is the only part of the SS drive train that is NOT rubber insulated and to make matters worse it is attached to the frame right where you sit.
I will play around with it till I find an answer, a complete final drive is just over 1400.00 I did not want to take my unit out and not be able to drive it. Also I wanted to measure everything as it was new. They did make a running change to them in 3rd Quarter 2015 the part number changed. What they did different I do not know. Trying to get and old one also. So I can check them both. I have a bid on one on e-bay it has to be a earlier one being in the 3000 number serial number .

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Blitzkrieg

· #9 · Jul 9, 2016

lilb93 said:
NERVOUS?? Only when you hear a helicopter's over head and the swat team surround your house then I would be nervous. What break in??? That"s Polaris bull. When you buy a new car, truck, motorcycle. Big warning on the dash" rear will make noise till broke in". I think not. Personally im half deaf, and I play the radio almost full blast. It's the people that I gave a ride to that says what the hell is all the whine noise. Maybe it will never be without noise even if it was setup perfect, For one it is the only part of the SS drive train that is NOT rubber insulated and to make matters worse it is attached to the frame right where you sit.
I will play around with it till I find an answer, a complete final drive is just over 1400.00 I did not want to take my unit out and not be able to drive it. Also I wanted to measure everything as it was new. They did make a running change to them in 3rd Quarter 2015 the part number changed. What they did different I do not know. Trying to get and old one also. So I can check them both. I have a bid on one on e-bay it has to be a earlier one being in the 3000 number serial number .

I wasn't criticizing your ideas brother. I was just saying changing from gear oil to ATF fluid from a warranty standpoint makes me nervous.

I am all ears on hearing what you come up with. Should be interesting. ;-)

lilb93

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jul 9, 2016

Once I breach the ECM I won't need polaris for any warranty(did not even start on that YET). After watching the clowns at the dealers trying to adjust the belt I have come to realize why I fired so many mechanics in my lifetime. Sure there are great mechanics that work for dealerships, If you find a 1000 of them 10 are really good 20 are ok and the rest would not let them wash it.

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ZimDog

· #11 · Jul 11, 2016

lilb93 said:
NERVOUS?? Only when you hear a helicopter's over head and the swat team surround your house then I would be nervous. What break in??? That"s Polaris bull. When you buy a new car, truck, motorcycle. Big warning on the dash" rear will make noise till broke in". I think not. Personally im half deaf, and I play the radio almost full blast. It's the people that I gave a ride to that says what the hell is all the whine noise. Maybe it will never be without noise even if it was setup perfect, For one it is the only part of the SS drive train that is NOT rubber insulated and to make matters worse it is attached to the frame right where you sit.
I will play around with it till I find an answer, a complete final drive is just over 1400.00 I did not want to take my unit out and not be able to drive it. Also I wanted to measure everything as it was new. They did make a running change to them in 3rd Quarter 2015 the part number changed. What they did different I do not know. Trying to get and old one also. So I can check them both. I have a bid on one on e-bay it has to be a earlier one being in the 3000 number serial number .

Any way to add rubber mounts without too severely affecting drivetrain angles?

lilb93

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jul 11, 2016

I looked at it, you would have to modify the frame. Then the next problem when you tighten the belt it will pull on the rubber mounts. It can be done with a chain and a belt system. Tons of design work.

lilb93

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jul 11, 2016

I am playing with it as we speak.There belt tension is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. With no one in deflection now .71 They ask for .63
with grandkids in 210 lbs total deflection .44 with one son and grandkid 325lbs. deflection .09
With big son and other son in 550lbs. Could not get a reading it was so tight.
Then you going to account for acceleration and bumps in the road. I can now see why it is HOWLING.
What IDIOT came up with there belt tension was on some kind of drugs that day.
After lunch we are going to start at 1.50 deflection and go from there.
See if I get a belt jump. and see how it howls.

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lilb93

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jul 12, 2016

Just as I figured, The more load you put in the SS the tighter the belt gets. It is no different for Harley or BMW. Just looking at BMW threads of rear bearing failures caused by there factory belt tension. I hsd a Harley trike and when I put true duels on it looked at the belt. it was pretty loose. Called the dealer since it only had 100 miles on it, he said they set them loose at there dealership to avoid bearing failure. ( Go figure). I have it up on the lift now, draining the final drive again. Will adjust the belt with 1.25" deflection and install #10 ATF.
Will let you know how she works.

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lilb93

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jul 12, 2016

1.25 did not work belt rubbed on bottom of frame. 1.00" an it just about cleared. Under acceleration it would hit. Going for .90 now.

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lilb93

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jul 12, 2016

Well we played, and played with it. As for the Howl it is still there. Tried the ATF made no difference. Tried Mobil 1 gear lube did not matter. We set the belt from .50 to 1.00 all the same. Got out of here at 3 Am this morning. We did remove the belt last (Should have did that first) checked the Pinion (Angle Drive) backlash they call for .0055 to .0157 this was .0015.
So the Pinion is set wrong and now it would be trash with 800 miles on it. We removed the driveshaft and hand spun the the angle drive. Sounds like Hillary and Monica and Bill are in there duking it out. Total Junk. Ordered a new Angle drive last week and got a used one from suncoast cycles in Fla. Both should be here next week. I would venture to say the bearings are trashed because of the belt tension (originally set) .273 and of course the maker was the cheapest one they could find. Sorry about the photo upside down Had a brain fart and forgot how to fix it.

So next week and when I actually find my video camera. Will make a you tube video of what i find when I take them apart.

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lilb93

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jul 13, 2016

Well the used one came in. It was out if a 2015 with 7800 miles. It has the original pinion seal in it. (good Sign). Measured the pinion back lash it is at 0.0092 Factory manual states .0055 to .0157 so it right in the middle. Was going to take it apart, but first I am going to swap it out with my unit and see if it howls. Should take 2 Hrs.

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lilb93

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jul 13, 2016 (Edited)

Here is the noise at 35 MPH go faster it get louder. Going down a hill in neutral.

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Blitzkrieg

· #19 · Jul 13, 2016

No. Mine most definitely does not sound like that. Not even close.

Roy Taylor

· #20 · Jul 13, 2016

Nor does mine but when I was over L&D Cycles in Dover the other day was talking to one of their mechanics (his name is Mike). He was telling me of just such a wine and found out that it was a defect in the belt. Ordered a new belt from Polaris and once installing it, the problem was solved. I not saying this is the same but just throwing it out there. Don't know if this will help

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