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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This is from a Very Good Friend to many of us , Rabtech that likes to give out info for Slingshots .
He posted on another site and I have copied and pasted here for any that may consider this as valuable imformation as I certainy do.
I witnessed this mess first hand including the initial tear down .
Thanks, Wrenchmn




I have been quiet (too quiet) for a while on the forum and I think I know how to bring myself back from the dead.. I need to explain to everyone how my Slingshot's last few months have been spent.... But first,,,,This isn't a post to make anyone decide one way or another about what to buy or not to buy. It's just a post that explains EXACTLY where I am with my Slingshot and it will give you all an idea of what FREE actually cost.

In fact it kinda surprises me that no one has really noticed that I haven't posted about my last new boosted toy. The new toy that was graciously given to me by Alpha to try out with my new forged engine. More on that later..... It's not all bad and I'm not mad... Just a little disheartened by the way that whole situation ended.

I guess you all are wondering what the heck I am talking about… Why would I be disheartened with a free turbo?? Well it comes down to ME having to purchase a new engine…..Here is how it all occurred…

Everyone saw my whole install right here on the forum in big huge colorful pictures… I posted a bunch of pictures showing every step I made. It fired right up and ran perfect and right after I started driving it I noticed it smoking when I was at red lights and when I let out on the clutch and gave it gas leaving the red light… I first thought this excess oil smoke was due to me not drilling the hole in the intake plenum as the addendum in the installation had shown. But after another day of driving it I sent Henry a text about it. I just explained I was having a bit more smoke than the tiny hole “fix” could possibly eliminate. We talked back and forth about it possibly being a bad seal in the turbo housing and other issues that might cause it… At this point It was my hope that it was just actually just a quirk and that it was just the way the system worked.

Maybe it was the hole in the intake that needed to be drilled out…

Unfortunately it wasn't the hole that needed drilling out….

After deciding to live with the smoke (at least till I drilled out that hole) I went ahead and scheduled dyno time with DDMWorks. Everyone on the forum saw me load my SS up and head to DDM at close to midnight so that I could arrive early.… When I arrived at DDM they backed it onto the dyno and I showed Dave how I could make it smoke by throttling the gas. And now I could see it smoke better at idle since it was inside the building. One thing that puzzled me was while it was at a steady rpm (just like cruising down the road) it seemed to clean up a bit and the smoke didn't seem to be as prevalent.

Little did I know what was about to be revealed to me…

We made the first pull on the dyno and put down around 400hp. The only issue was that after each dyno pull it seemed to smoke more each time. After the third pull it was time to call it quits. So we cooled the whole engine down and pulled the plugs.. It had a couple of cylinders that were a bit low on compression but (to me) nothing terrible. So we proceed to pull the charge tubes off. This is where it really gets confusing so I will go ahead a start a whole new paragraph.

Once we pulled the tube from the turbo to the intercooler we noticed silver glitter all in the neck of the turbo and in the tube itself. It was stuck to the walls of the tubing. At this point most people would say that the fins on the turbine had made contact with the housing…. Well guess what…. Nope! Not a scratch or mark could be found anywhere inside the turbine housing…

I just told Dave to do whatever needed to be done to find out how bad it was and let me know… So I went back to the hotel and packed my clothes and took my sad ass back to Haleyville. And for the time being I told everyone that I was going to be adding a boost controller to the SS to control the boost more effectively… AND I DID. I just didn't tell the whole truth.. And I'm sorry for that… I just felt at this point it wasn’t the time to throw in the towel and say that metal must have accidentally been left in the turbo system somehow. Over the next week, I sat at home waiting on Dave to have time to open up everything and get some detailed pictures of the damage. I know it sounds very silly but it was like having a child in the hospital and each day your 400 miles away and can’t go see them. Well in my childlike world it was… Finally Dave started sending me pictures of what he had flushed out of my intercooler and my heart dropped… It was tiny metal shavings. They covered the bottom of a kids tiny solo paper cup. And that was just one cup. Another cup bottom was covered by metal shavings over the next two days of flushing pipes and the intercooler. The next day the most painful pictures arrived via text. It was every cylinder scarred with up and down scratches. It was terrible…I swear I got so sick. I had just witnessed the death of my 4000.00 engine.

So now at least we know why it was smoking…

I asked Dave what I could do to fix it. And told him I was supposed to be in Panama City for Bike Week. He didn't even hesitate with his response. He said for me not to worry about it and that he would get me going by installing the next forged engine that was coming out of the machine shop…. Wait….. Someone has to pay for that engine… And I just bought one… I can’t afford another one….

He said that he would send all the pictures to Alpha and call and explain everything to them. Yes,,, I can see how they might not understand how it could happen. But it did… And I was clear to Alpha that I thought it had a problem way before I took it to DDM for the dyno runs. Dave said he would let them know what the cost was to install my new engine. He said he would see what they wanted to do. He said if they didn’t think it was their system that caused the damage after seeing all the pictures and speaking to him that he would just let it go… LET IT GO…. No , I don’t think so…. I am not going to let this go that easy. So a couple of weeks ago I asked if he had heard anything. He told me that he had not. He said to give them a little more time to reply.

After a couple more weeks of waiting on their reply to Dave and it never happening, I have decided now that it’s time to at least tell the truth (as I see it) to everyone. AND I WILL PAY DAVE for this new engine…..

Well there ya go…. Now yall know the rest of the story. Counting the new engine, hotel bills, fuel bills, and travel time back and forth to South Carolina the free turbo has cost me around $5500.00.

Do I like the system? Yep, It did very well on the dyno after we cleaned the system out and changed the engine. How well? It was very good..
Do I think I got a “one off” problem? Maybe
Do I think I will keep the system on my SS? Probably not
Why would I remove it? Because once you eat something and it leaves a bad taste in your mouth you don’t easily forget it.
Since you don’t like it will you send Alpha system back? Well, I just bought a $4000.00 engine because of it.. So I don’t think so. I believe I paid the cost of admission to the Alpha club… I will keep the pretty bling…

I love all the vendors on the forum. Especially Alpha… I honestly do think they have a great system… I just managed to get a bum steer. We all get a bad steak every once in awhile… I just wanted them to work this out between each other and nothing has happened. If something changes and they decide to contact Dave or me I will promise to update this post immediately. And I will even go as far as to publish the new dyno numbers that I pulled with this system after I changed the engine. You Alpha guys and gals would be proud of this system. But as much as I want to brag about how powerful the system is I CAN’T. Not unless something changes.
 

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Kind of a hard story to follow. And, kind of hard to lay the blame in any one spot. Just too many moving pieces here. I'm not sticking up for either vendor. They both seem to make pretty great products.
 

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So let me make sure I understand:

1) This is coming from third party, not you right?
2) Are you/he saying there was slag or metal sawdust in the intercooler? And the turbo impeller and housing was perfect which would lead to that conclusion.
3) Why wasn't the entire turbo and intercooler outfit shipped back to Alpha for inspection without disturbing anything?

Not saying I disbelieve anything here, but if I found something like this I would call Henry and ship it all back w/o disturbing anything.

Bear with me. I question everything.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
So let me make sure I understand:

1) This is coming from third party, not you right? I have clearly listed the information that is directly from me.


2) Are you/he saying there was slag or metal sawdust in the intercooler? YES , saw it first hand and not third party.

And the turbo impeller and housing was perfect which would lead to that conclusion. No sign of impeller hitting the housing .


3) Why wasn't the entire turbo and intercooler outfit shipped back to Alpha for inspection without disturbing anything?
Henry had that option and as of the last hour has made no cotact direct with Rabtech.


Not saying I disbelieve anything here, but if I found something like this I would call Henry and ship it all back w/o disturbing anything.
If that had been Henry's request, it could certainly have been honored.


Bear with me. I question everything.
If I were not there to see this first hand , I would as well. There is certainly no offense taken for you asking questions. Blind assumptions would be more of a challenge.
Thanks,
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I witnessed the unraveling glitter first hand and it is truly heart breaking .
When you put the time , energy and money in to these machines to make it part of your life, it becomes just that. I share an emotional attachment to certain vehicles and equipment in the exact same way that Rabtech does and when things don't go according to our plans ,it hurts to the core . Our blood sweat and tears come and go in these machines and for that to be dis respected and ignored is very simply put NOT Acceptable . I witnessed DDM Works step up and do all they possibly can do and I anxiously await Alpha to do the same . I am a first hand witness to the glitter throughout the system at the initial teardown . @[email protected] and @[email protected] were building Insurance to protect my Sling from my abuse at that time . They will continue the Slingshot quest to protect and serve under my 13EEE .
We would like to think that from the name of the company alone ," Alpha " (has a meaning of beginning or first ) will step up and do the right thing even if no one was looking . We are looking and we vote with our wallets. I have Alpha, DDM , and Hahn Race craft products all over my Sling and have faith that each and everyone will do the right thing in the event of a failed component that they have accountability for .
 

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Oh, this is Rabtechs motor.

Yeah, I've been following the story as the sparse details were (until today apparently when the full story came out). Bad situation.

I've built a lot of motors in my day. Not my first rodeo for sure.

There are so many variables involved when something like this goes wrong. Did anybody check the metal particles for magnetism or were they aluminum? Was the oil sent to Oil Analyzers to get a breakdown of content? Has the turbo been returned to Precision for inspection? All of these things are clues that can lead to the smoking gun.

I read a couple things on the "other" site and looked at the pictures. Absolutely something went sideways but I think we need a little more substantive forensics before jumping to conclusions (which I am NOT saying Rabtech is doing).

I did read a couple comments that were complete fiction.

One being that somehow welding slag from welding the turbo somehow got into the impeller or turbo housing. Not going to happen w/o the turbo grenading. Guarantee you that if you call Precision they will say the exact same thing. The impeller and housing are machined to extremely tight tolerances and even a small piece of slag would pretty much destroy it or at least produce significant damage the naked eye could see on the impeller and seat.

The other being that the oil pan angle connector on the return line is somehow causing smoking. Bullshit. That return line is more than large enough to flow freely back to the pan and I double dog dare anybody to try to prove the L is somehow restricting flow back to the pan. 250F oil is surprisingly anxious to follow gravity.

If the charge tubes or intercooler were filled with metal shavings (and again, I would LOVE to know if they were metallic or aluminum) one of three things happened:

1) Somehow shavings got introduced after manufacturing.
2) Things weren't cleaned up on the assembly line.
3) There was some other failure of a component that blew metal shavings out the exhaust and into the turbo.

I am pointing no fingers here. I am just saying I have had mechanical breakdown occur before and until you do forensics, it's all conjecture.

Edit: And BTW: I vacuumed out my intercooler, washed the charge tubes and vacuumed out the turbo and housing thoroughly before install. Found nothing in a clean vacuum bag after but I do that with just about anything I install. Old habit.
 

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Blitzkrieg,

Any idea what might be causing the smoking problem many of us turbo guys are having? Already drilled out the intake. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Oh, this is Rabtechs motor.

Yeah, I've been following the story as the sparse details were (until today apparently when the full story came out). Bad situation.

I've built a lot of motors in my day. Not my first rodeo for sure.

There are so many variables involved when something like this goes wrong. Did anybody check the metal particles for magnetism or were they aluminum? Was the oil sent to Oil Analyzers to get a breakdown of content? Has the turbo been returned to Precision for inspection? All of these things are clues that can lead to the smoking gun.

I read a couple things on the "other" site and looked at the pictures. Absolutely something went sideways but I think we need a little more substantive forensics before jumping to conclusions (which I am NOT saying Rabtech is doing).

I did read a couple comments that were complete fiction.

One being that somehow welding slag from welding the turbo somehow got into the impeller or turbo housing. Not going to happen w/o the turbo grenading. Guarantee you that if you call Precision they will say the exact same thing. The impeller and housing are machined to extremely tight tolerances and even a small piece of slag would pretty much destroy it or at least produce significant damage the naked eye could see on the impeller and seat.

The other being that the oil pan angle connector on the return line is somehow causing smoking. Bullshit. That return line is more than large enough to flow freely back to the pan and I double dog dare anybody to try to prove the L is somehow restricting flow back to the pan. 250F oil is surprisingly anxious to follow gravity.

If the charge tubes or intercooler were filled with metal shavings (and again, I would LOVE to know if they were metallic or aluminum) one of three things happened:

1) Somehow shavings got introduced after manufacturing.
2) Things weren't cleaned up on the assembly line.
3) There was some other failure of a component that blew metal shavings out the exhaust and into the turbo.

I am pointing no fingers here. I am just saying I have had mechanical breakdown occur before and until you do forensics, it's all conjecture.

Edit: And BTW: I vacuumed out my intercooler, washed the charge tubes and vacuumed out the turbo and housing thoroughly before install. Found nothing in a clean vacuum bag after but I do that with just about anything I install. Old habit.



Non -Magnetic Guess you had to be there . Not my first Rodeo by any means . Just information for those who want it without a lot of BullSpit to go with it.
 

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Blitzkrieg,

Any idea what might be causing the smoking problem many of us turbo guys are having? Already drilled out the intake. Thanks
That's the $20K question. See, many of us do not have the issue. I never have. I don't think Travis has. Lot's of Alpha turbos out there and it's not the norm.

So one has to ask at some point, is it something related to certain motors or certain components of motors? I don't know. I did the port drill on mine and it does not smoke nor burn oil.

I have to be honest. I am not a GM fan. I don't like GM vehicles and was more than a little apprehensive when I found out the SS has a GM motor and other GM components but was willing to give it a shot because I like the vehicle as a whole. If the LE9 blows up it's not going to break my heart because I'll tear it apart and either put in a Honda VTEC motor (4x the motor an LE9 will ever be) or maybe something else.

Just my .02.
 

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I can tell you for a fact that that motor made over 460whp on a dyno just a few weeks before with a Hahn Turbo.
The motor was running 100%. Everything went south after the installation of the new system.
Draw your own conclusions but these are the facts.
 

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Non -Magnetic Guess you had to be there . Not my first Rodeo by any means . Just information for those who want it without a lot of BullSpit to go with it.
I appreciate what you are saying. These are the kind of details that should have been in the original post.

I get were this is going. You and Rabtech are saying the unit was defective as delivered. Where I am coming from is Alpha did not even have a chance to inspect things in the state they were when the damage occurred and I can guarantee you they would have loved to.

Again, I am not taking sides (if the Bullspit was meant for me). I am just saying that had this happened to me, everything would have been Saran-wrapped, packed up and over-nighted to Alpha so they had a chance to see things untouched and be able make a determination including disassembling the turbo if thats what Precision recommended.

It's kind of like somebody gets murdered and the body is cleaned up, drained of all fluids and DNA evidence and the cops get called and are told "Solve it". ;-)
 

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Please read his post more carefully as he is not bashing Alpha he actually very impressed with the performance of the system. But the damage was done and Henry was notified at the first wiff of smoke. Since this post was copied and pasted from another forum which this form blocks the pictures did not carry forward. If you know of the other forum you can go there for more details. Trust me no one wanted this to work out more than rabtech he was as excited as a kid at Christmas but the failure was definitely due to something in this system. The system is now on a new motor and working but unfortunately at the cost of a brand new motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I appreciate what you are saying. These are the kind of details that should have been in the original post.

I get were this is going. You and Rabtech are saying the unit was defective as delivered. Where I am coming from is Alpha did not even have a chance to inspect things in the state they were when the damage occurred and I can guarantee you they would have loved to.

Again, I am not taking sides (if the Bullspit was meant for me). I am just saying that had this happened to me, everything would have been Saran-wrapped, packed up and over-nighted to Alpha so they had a chance to see things untouched and be able make a determination including disassembling the turbo if thats what Precision recommended.

It's kind of like somebody gets murdered and the body is cleaned up, drained of all fluids and DNA evidence and the cops get called and are told "Solve it". ;-)




Every detail of contact is simply not included and is much more lengthy than anyone would want to read. The bottom line is Alpha has the information and has had the knowledge of this problem for a period of time and has NOT ONCE asked for anything besides pictures that were provided.
As to how you would handle the situation if it were yours may be very differant from trust levels or prior dealings with a vendor and thats fine.
This has been handled with the Profesionalism in which it should and all request for information and material have been met. Not even close to your coment ! " It's kind of like somebody gets murdered and the body is cleaned up, drained of all fluids and DNA evidence and the cops get called and are told "Solve it"
Thanks,
 

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I can tell you for a fact that that motor made over 460whp on a dyno just a few weeks before with a Hahn Turbo.
The motor was running 100%. Everything went south after the installation of the new system.
Draw your own conclusions but these are the facts.
The facts are the motor was beat to shit on a dyno, made 460 RWHP with a Hahn and for some reason that wasn't good enough so the Hahn was pulled and a free Alpha turbo was installed. Where is the proof that last dyno run with the Hahn didn't stress something and the girl only had a few more dyno runs before things went south? There is none.

And the fact the Alpha didn't get a chance to inspect the whole outfit before this gets blasted out like a drunken late Trump tweet just makes things look worse for everybody BUT Alpha.

Sorry. I want to feel sorry for the hurt parties but way too many holes in the story for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Please read his post more carefully as he is not bashing Alpha he actually very impressed with the performance of the system. But the damage was done and Henry was notified at the first wiff of smoke. Since this post was copied and pasted from another forum which this form blocks the pictures did not carry forward. If you know of the other forum you can go there for more details. Trust me no one wanted this to work out more than rabtech he was as excited as a kid at Christmas but the failure was definitely due to something in this system. The system is now on a new motor and working but unfortunately at the cost of a brand new motor.

YOLO is aware of the other forum and has made recent visits as he says and that he has semi-followed the info of this story and not pleased with the issue not being handled the way he would handle it.
 

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The facts are the motor was beat to shit on a dyno, made 460 RWHP with a Hahn and for some reason that wasn't good enough so the Hahn was pulled and a free Alpha turbo was installed. Where is the proof that last dyno run with the Hahn didn't stress something and the girl only had a few more dyno runs before things went south? There is none.

And the fact the Alpha didn't get a chance to inspect the whole outfit before this gets blasted out like a drunken late Trump tweet just makes things look worse for everybody BUT Alpha.

Sorry. I want to feel sorry for the hurt parties but way too many holes in the story for me.

Unfortunately once again you do not see the forest for the trees - it was after that motor made those numbers that Henry contacted rabtech and offered him his system to test. Knowing that if it could out perform the Hahn he would have bragging rights. This was not a stock motor but a brand new forged motor. The damage was done due to ingestion of metal. That metal was not there prior to installation of this system. Give the guy some credit he has been quietly dealing with this for months with no results. Photo documentation was supplied and Alpha could have requested any part they wanted for inspection as well as receive a complete report from the engine builder. The fact that they choose to ignore it should be the primary issue.
 

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Unfortunately once again you do not see the forest for the trees - it was after that motor made those numbers that Henry contacted rabtech and offered him his system to test. Knowing that if it could out perform the Hahn he would have bragging rights. This was not a stock motor but a brand new forged motor. The damage was done due to ingestion of metal. That metal was not there prior to installation of this system. Give the guy some credit he has been quietly dealing with this for months with no results. Photo documentation was supplied and Alpha could have requested any part they wanted for inspection as well as receive a complete report from the engine builder. The fact that they choose to ignore it should be the primary issue.
I see the forest quite well.

Did Rabtech vacuum out the intercooler and wash the charge tubes out before installing the Alpha turbo?

If not... Well, that's a huge rookie mistake. You are assuming that the parts are operating room clean when you get them. If he did, then the problem is elsewhere now isn't it?

Forest and trees.
 

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First off and most importantly this is a bummer and I feel bad for him having bad luck.

With that being said, there are a lot of things that annoy/bother me with this whole story. I'm not going to post them all, but I'd like to say just a couple of my vewpoints...

1. If he was gracious enough to give away his Hahn turbo kit and the person blew their motor, would he pay for them to get a new $5,000 motor installed?

2. I'd DDM gave away a forged motor and it wrecked a turbo kit, should they be responsible in buying the customer a new kit?

3. Is it right to blame someone without knowing what really caused the issue?

4. Is it ok to "now be honest" and make a company look bad because you're not getting your way after they already gave you a $6,000 turbo kit?

I'm bummed for everyone, but my logic says you need to be mad at bad luck and move on without causing a stink.

 

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I agree there are always two sides, however nothing has been heard from @Turbosling on this issue...

That only worries me because I'm interested in their SC kit, but would like to know they at least respond with something when there's an issue...
 
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