Block or pan?

6303 Views 28 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Lfgeorge3, Jun 12, 2020

G-madness-bikerz

Discussion Starter · Jun 24, 2017

How many tapped the oil pan vs the block when installing your turbo?

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

BKL

· #2 · Jun 24, 2017 (Edited)

I bought the pre-modded oil pan from Hahn. The local installers wanted to drill the block with the pan in place (time is money for them), but I didn't like that idea. Figured if I'm going to pull the pan to drill the hole, I might as well just install a pre-modded plan. I hope to pull the pan tomorrow.
If I were going to drill my block with the pan in place, I'd want to do it the way Noel Hughes from Cycle Springs does it. They use an old oil-cap, drilled for an air hose to pressurize the oil pan and (hopefully) blow out any metal shavings from drilling. I'm anal enough that I'd still want to run lots of oil through the pan and straight into a container to try and flush any particle(s) that might have dropped down. There's a maze of baffles in the oil pan that look like any particles that drop in the pan might get trapped in the pan and possibly cause problems later.
The safest way to drill the block is to pull the pan before drilling/tapping the hole and then reinstalling the pan.

G-madness-bikerz

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jun 24, 2017

BKL said:
I bought the pre-modded oil pan from Hahn. The local installers wanted to drill the block with the pan in place (time is money for them), but I didn't like that idea. Figured if I'm going to pull the pan to drill the hole, I might as well just install a pre-modded plan. I hope to pull the pan tomorrow.
If I were going to drill my block with the pan in place, I'd want to do it the way Noel Hughes from Cycle Springs does it. They use an old oil-cap, drilled for an air hose to pressurize the oil pan and (hopefully) blow out any metal shavings from drilling. I'm anal enough that I'd still want to run lots of oil through the pan and straight into a container to try and flush any particle(s) that might have dropped down. There's a maze of baffles in the oil pan that look like any particles that drop in the pan might get trapped in the pan and possibly cause problems later.
The safest way to drill the block is to pull the pan before drilling/tapping the hole ans then reinstalling the pan.

It just makes me wonder, I mean, hahn is a professional... He offers these 2 options, so it should be OK to drill the block right? And u lost me... How does removing the pan help while drilling the block? I'm guessing if ur gonna remove the pan to drill the block, might as well drill the pan instead?

andymo

· #4 · Jun 24, 2017

G-madness-bikerz said:
It just makes me wonder, I mean, hahn is a professional... He offers these 2 options, so it should be OK to drill the block right? And u lost me... How does removing the pan help while drilling the block? I'm guessing if ur gonna remove the pan to drill the block, might as well drill the pan instead?

To do it again, I'd buy the modified pan. I drilled my block with pan in place, but then worried about filings before I ran it. To put my mind at ease I pulled the pan and was surprised at how many filings were still in the pan despite my best efforts.

BKL

· #5 · Jun 24, 2017

G-madness-bikerz said:
It just makes me wonder, I mean, hahn is a professional... He offers these 2 options, so it should be OK to drill the block right? And u lost me... How does removing the pan help while drilling the block? I'm guessing if ur gonna remove the pan to drill the block, might as well drill the pan instead?

people who do turbo installs or other high-tech mods will drill the block with the pan in place to save time since time is money. I guess once you've done a few, you probably get more confidence, but anyone who has OCD or is paranoid would probably prefer to pull the pan before drilling just to make sure no metal gets into the oil pan. See @andymo's quote below -

andymo said:
To do it again, I'd buy the modified pan. I drilled my block with pan in place, but then worried about filings before I ran it. To put my mind at ease I pulled the pan and was surprised at how many filings were still in the pan despite my best efforts.

Also, you don't just drill the pan. The bung that connects to the oil return line must be welded in place. for the best weld, Hahn recommend welding from the inside of the pan with some additional support tack welds on the outside.

G-madness-bikerz

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jun 24, 2017

BKL said:
people who do turbo installs or other high-tech mods will drill the block with the pan in place to save time since time is money. I guess once you've done a few, you probably get more confidence, but anyone who has OCD or is paranoid would probably prefer to pull the pan before drilling just to make sure no metal gets into the oil pan. See @andymo's quote below -

Also, you don't just drill the pan. The bung that connects to the oil return line must be welded in place. for the best weld, Hahn recommend welding from the inside of the pan with some additional support tack welds on the outside.

OK this makes sense... So I guess I'm drilling the block...

G-madness-bikerz

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jun 24, 2017

BKL said:
people who do turbo installs or other high-tech mods will drill the block with the pan in place to save time since time is money. I guess once you've done a few, you probably get more confidence, but anyone who has OCD or is paranoid would probably prefer to pull the pan before drilling just to make sure no metal gets into the oil pan. See @andymo's quote below -

Also, you don't just drill the pan. The bung that connects to the oil return line must be welded in place. for the best weld, Hahn recommend welding from the inside of the pan with some additional support tack welds on the outside.

So in theory, pull the pan, drill the block, all or most of the shavings fall straight to the floor?

Blitzkrieg

· #8 · Jun 24, 2017

I would never drill the block. Screw that up and you have a real expensive mistake.

I would never drill the pan in place. I don't care what anybody says, it's practically impossible to not get metal shavings in there and little things like main bearings and cylinders don't like metal shavings.

Do it once. Do it right. Remove the pan and either have it tapped and welded or buy one that is already done (the route I did and would take - in fact Alphas kit includes the oil pan modified already).

If you read my turbo install instructions over in the forced induction forum you will get an idea of what you have to do. Basically you have to jack up the tranny and engine in order to clear the cross member when removing the pan.

Are you mechanically inclined?

G-madness-bikerz

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jun 24, 2017

Blitzkrieg said:
I would never drill the block. Screw that up and you have a real expensive mistake.

I would never drill the pan in place. I don't care what anybody says, it's practically impossible to not get metal shavings in there and little things like main bearings and cylinders don't like metal shavings.

Do it once. Do it right. Remove the pan and either have it tapped and welded or buy one that is already done (the route I did and would take - in fact Alphas kit includes the oil pan modified already).

If you read my turbo install instructions over in the forced induction forum you will get an idea of what you have to do. Basically you have to jack up the tranny and engine in order to clear the cross member when removing the pan.

Are you mechanically inclined?

I did my own intake, headers n exhaust.. I've done multiple stereo systems including my ss... Do my own brakes n oil changes... Basic stuff... So I don't know... I think I can do this install

Blitzkrieg

· #10 · Jun 25, 2017

G-madness-bikerz said:
I did my own intake, headers n exhaust.. I've done multiple stereo systems including my ss... Do my own brakes n oil changes... Basic stuff... So I don't know... I think I can do this install

Yeah, read the steps for removing the oil pan in my doc. You'll get a good idea if it's something you want to tackle. The main thing is taking your time and following procedure. Measure twice, cut once. That type of thing.

BKL

· #11 · Jun 25, 2017

The Hahn turbo mounts higher than the Alpha and can have the oil return either to the block or the oil pan. Since the Alpha mounts lower, many believe that is why the Alpha doesn't use the block. Either way, oil pan or block, if you want to be sure no metal particles end up in the oil pan, pull the oil pan before drilling anything. I'm using the pre-modded pan from Hahn. IIRC, @RABTECH was the first person to do a self-install of the Hahn system and he drilled his block AFTER pulling the pan so no metal particles could get in the oil pan.

MRD

· #12 · Jun 26, 2017

Somewhere I thought I seen an adapter that replaces the stock oil plug, basically a "T" that threads into the oil plug to allow a turbo to be installed. Anyone seen that?

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G-madness-bikerz

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jun 26, 2017

MRD said:
Somewhere I thought I seen an adapter that replaces the stock oil plug, basically a "T" that threads into the oil plug to allow a turbo to be installed. Anyone seen that?

That would be awesome..

BKL

· #14 · Jun 26, 2017 (Edited)

MRD said:
Somewhere I thought I seen an adapter that replaces the stock oil plug, basically a "T" that threads into the oil plug to allow a turbo to be installed. Anyone seen that?

Not sure what you're referring to. DDM Works offers an adapter to use a remote oil filter. I asked them if it could be used to adapt the oil lines for a turbo, routing the oil thru the turbo and then to the remote oil filter, but they said no. The oil from the turbo is foamy and needs time to settle back into the rest of the liquid oil. I should think that once you have your oil rerouted to an external oil filter, you could then route at least part of the oil to the turbo and back to the engine using a larger tube that would allow the foamy oil to settle before going back into the oil pan, but this still requires either tapping the block or modding the pan.
This Google search - turbo oil return adapter - Google Search, found several bolt-on oil pan adapters that don't need welding. Audi evidently uses a bolt-on oil return fitting on the 1.8 engine.
If you're referring to an adapter that fits in the drain plug opening, I'd assume the foamy oil might not have enough consistency to displace the liquid oil and get into the pan from the bottom.
I bought a Amazon.com: Fumoto F-107N Engine Oil Drain Valve: Automotive, that replaces the oil drain plug and allows easy opening of the valve for oil changes. On the Slingshot's pan, I needed an extension (Amazon.com: ADP-107 Fumoto® Adapter 12mm-1.75 (not compatible with F107SX): Automotive) to move the valve out to clear the oil pan recess the valve mounts into.
This is the only type of oil pan plug adapter I'm aware of. Maybe someone else knows.

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TravAZ

· #15 · Jun 26, 2017 (Edited)

MRD said:
Somewhere I thought I seen an adapter that replaces the stock oil plug, basically a "T" that threads into the oil plug to allow a turbo to be installed. Anyone seen that?

You are referring to the oil feed line, not the drain line. The oil feed line is smaller and you tap into one of the oil passage plugs with an adapter.

The drain line is MUCH larger, and you really want to drain to the oil pan. Take the extra time to pull the pan and drill it out off of the vehicle to ensure it is done right. This is more time consuming initially, but it worth the piece of mind.

I just spend a couple hours cleaning up an oil pan that had metal chunks and shaving all in it. It is impossible to get everything out, unless the pan is off.

Reactions: 1

Blitzkrieg

· #16 · Jun 27, 2017

MRD said:
Somewhere I thought I seen an adapter that replaces the stock oil plug, basically a "T" that threads into the oil plug to allow a turbo to be installed. Anyone seen that?

Nope. And if it existed I would never use it.

Here is why:

Turbos are gravity feed drains (the ones made for the SS). The oil pan is full of oil. Get where I am going?

Reactions: 1

BKL

· #17 · Jul 30, 2017 (Edited)

I pulled my oil pan to swap in the pre-modded pan I got from Hahn Racecraft at the beginning of the month. Unfortunately, after being under the weather the first half of the month and then having my Son and Granddaughter come visit, I am only now getting back to the turbo install.
I have a question about the oil pickup. The Hahn oil pan consists of a bare pan, so the baffle and oil pickup must be transplanted. When I removed the oil pickup from the original pan, it appeared to just be a friction fit as I couldn't see any sign of any type of sealant on the oil pickup tube going to the oil pickup point in the original pan. I simply pushed the pickup tube into place so that the screws were able to secure the pickup intake to the bottom of the oil pan. Is sealant needed or should I just stay with the press-fit? I haven't been able to find a write-up anyplace. I'd hate to install the pan only to find that the oil pump is cavitating and not picking up any oil thru the pickup tube. The impact on my motor would definitely be disastrous!

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Reactions: 1

TravAZ

· #18 · Jul 30, 2017

BKL said:
I pulled my oil pan to swap in the pre-modded pan I got from Hahn Racecraft at the beginning of the month. Unfortunately, after being under the weather the first half of the month and then having my Son and Granddaughter come visit, I am only now getting back to the turbo install.
I have a question about the oil pickup. The Hahn oil pan consists of a bare pan, so the baffle and oil pickup must be transplanted. When I removed the oil pickup from the original pan, it appeared to just be a friction fit as I couldn't see any sign of any type of sealant on the oil pickup tube going to the oil pickup point in the original pan. I simply pushed the pickup tube into place so that the screws were able to secure the pickup intake to the bottom of the oil pan. Is sealant needed or should I just stay with the press-fit? I haven't been able to find a write-up anyplace. I'd hate to install the pan only to find that the oil pump is cavitating and not picking up any oil thru the pickup tube. The impact on my motor would definitely be disastrous!

You are good. It is press fit.

BKL

· #19 · Jul 30, 2017

TravAZ said:
You are good. It is press fit.

Thanks. Like I posted, I couldn't see any signs of sealant when I took the intake tube off the old pan, but better to ask just in case, than starve me motor of oil!

iNewton

· #20 · Jul 30, 2017

Block is better because it makes sure oil evacuation is always going down. GM turbo ecotec go to block.

I would remove the pan to drill though.

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