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Discussion Starter #1
Like the title says, have any of you guys installed new valve springs and cams on your sling? I'll be installing new valve springs on my sling in the next few days (due to the valves floating from some extra boost)
and want some input on how the job went.

-What tool did you use to compress the spring?
-What tool did you use to keep the timing chain in place?
-Did you do the whole job without removing the timing chain cover and just removed the valve cover?
-Pics, vids, write up?

All info is appreciated! Thanks
 

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Like the title says, have any of you guys installed new valve springs and cams on your sling? I'll be installing new valve springs on my sling in the next few days (due to the valves floating from some extra boost)
and want some input on how the job went.

-What tool did you use to compress the spring?
-What tool did you use to keep the timing chain in place?
-Did you do the whole job without removing the timing chain cover and just removed the valve cover?
-Pics, vids, write up?

All info is appreciated! Thanks
Just wondering why you think your Valves are floating with boost? Not sure if you know, but the factory 2.0L engine that runs over 23psi of boost on stock valve springs use the same valve springs from the factory as the 2.4L. Typically valve float is an RPM issue, not a boost issue.

We have done cams quite a bit here on the 2.4L, when changing valve springs we remove the cylinder head and a regular spring compressor that is "C" shaped and holds the bottom of the valve while compressing the spring. I have heard of people using compressed air in the cylinders to keep the valves from dropping when the retainers are removed, but would not trust that on anything we work on here.

Hope that helps,
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I believe valves are floating because in the upper RPM's the motor will seem to get caught in a rev as if the valves are staying open rather then the RPM's coming down or going up with more throttle. And then once you shift and try to get back into the throttle it's acting as if the motor is overloaded.

I know the right way to do it is to remove the head but honestly I'll just compress the motor with air at TDC and use my valve spring compressor tool to do it. My main concern is finding the right tool or making up somthing to hold the timing chain in place when I take the cam gears off so that it doesn't fall. I've done it before several times on EVO's but i know this is a little different so was just wondering how other people did it or if there's a specific tool other then the $300 J-tool to hold the timing chain so it doesn't drop or move.
 

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I believe valves are floating because in the upper RPM's the motor will seem to get caught in a rev as if the valves are staying open rather then the RPM's coming down or going up with more throttle. And then once you shift and try to get back into the throttle it's acting as if the motor is overloaded.

I know the right way to do it is to remove the head but honestly I'll just compress the motor with air at TDC and use my valve spring compressor tool to do it. My main concern is finding the right tool or making up somthing to hold the timing chain in place when I take the cam gears off so that it doesn't fall. I've done it before several times on EVO's but i know this is a little different so was just wondering how other people did it or if there's a specific tool other then the $300 J-tool to hold the timing chain so it doesn't drop or move.
Sounds like the typical throttle hang that was common on the Slingshots and the enrichment bog on shifts. What kit are you running? Have you checked on a tune revision for the kit with Bob @MEFIburn ?

Here is a link to what looks like a cheaper version of the GM tool we use here when swapping cams, it locks the cam gears in place and allows you to get to the bolt holding the cam gear to the cams still. When using it, it takes a little practice to get the cams to go back in, but after you do it a couple times it is pretty easy -

Cam Phaser Retainer/Camshaft Actuator Locking Tool For 2.0L, 2.4L ECOTEC Engine | eBay

Let us know how it goes, like I mentioned earlier, all of our high horsepower builds here with more than 20psi of boost and 500HP have used the stock valve springs up to 7200RPM. If there anything else we can help with, just let me know. Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Sounds like the typical throttle hang that was common on the Slingshots and the enrichment bog on shifts. What kit are you running? Have you checked on a tune revision for the kit with Bob @MEFIburn ?

Here is a link to what looks like a cheaper version of the GM tool we use here when swapping cams, it locks the cam gears in place and allows you to get to the bolt holding the cam gear to the cams still. When using it, it takes a little practice to get the cams to go back in, but after you do it a couple times it is pretty easy -

Cam Phaser Retainer/Camshaft Actuator Locking Tool For 2.0L, 2.4L ECOTEC Engine | eBay

Let us know how it goes, like I mentioned earlier, all of our high horsepower builds here with more than 20psi of boost and 500HP have used the stock valve springs up to 7200RPM. If there anything else we can help with, just let me know. Dave
I thought at first it was throttle stick as well, but it's not the same (my personal stock sling gets throttle stick so I know the difference). I have a video of it doing it if you want me to send it to you to see what you think. But turbo company thinks it's floating valves as well. It's a ZZP kit by the way.

Any chance you have a pic of the tool in use? I'll def buy it if it'll hold the chain in place so I can get the job done easier and safely.
 

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I thought at first it was throttle stick as well, but it's not the same (my personal stock sling gets throttle stick so I know the difference). I have a video of it doing it if you want me to send it to you to see what you think. But turbo company thinks it's floating valves as well. It's a ZZP kit by the way.

Any chance you have a pic of the tool in use? I'll def buy it if it'll hold the chain in place so I can get the job done easier and safely.
Here is a picture of the tool installed. There are bolts that hold it down in the corners which are not shown in the picture, but hopefully it gives you an idea what it does when installed -

DDMWorks Cam Sprocket Tool Installed.jpg


Are you running some really high boost out of the ZZP kit, or does ZZP think 5-6psi of boost is floating valves?

Is your personal Slingshot boosted or naturally aspirated? What year is your personal Slingshot?

If you can post the video, that would be great. What year Slingshot is this turbo kit installed on also? Do you have a picture of the back of the ECM showing the white label? (that will tell us what base operating system you are using on this Slingshot also, there are 3 operating systems and they react differently)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Here is a picture of the tool installed. There are bolts that hold it down in the corners which are not shown in the picture, but hopefully it gives you an idea what it does when installed -

View attachment 174049

Are you running some really high boost out of the ZZP kit, or does ZZP think 5-6psi of boost is floating valves?

Is your personal Slingshot boosted or naturally aspirated? What year is your personal Slingshot?

If you can post the video, that would be great. What year Slingshot is this turbo kit installed on also? Do you have a picture of the back of the ECM showing the white label? (that will tell us what base operating system you are using on this Slingshot also, there are 3 operating systems and they react differently)
Wow that pic is extremely helpful!!! So once the cam gears are in those positions and the bracket is bolted down, I can unbolt the cam caps and then twist the cams I assume to get the cams out of the gears and the gears will stay perfectly in place?

No it's just regular 7-8psi with the kit. My personal sling is an 18 SLR LE and it is stock and the throttle sticks all the time, what this other slingshot is doing is totally different (trying to post the video).

The slingshot that has the kit on it is a 17 SL. I don't have the pic of the back of the ECM, but I can get it come next week!

I really appreciate your help!
 

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If I remember correctly the ZZP base kit uses the stock injectors and a tune produced by CBM .... read elsewhere it has some .. lets say ... glitches ... (you get what you pay for) o_O

Also read there is now an upgrade kit that includes 60# injectors, boost controller, and a new tune .....

...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
.

If I remember correctly the ZZP base kit uses the stock injectors and a tune produced by CBM .... read elsewhere it has some .. lets say ... glitches ... (you get what you pay for) o_O

Also read there is now an upgrade kit that includes 60# injectors, boost controller, and a new tune .....

...
Correct the stage 1 kit consists of stock injectors. Stage 2 you add injectors, bc, and different tune.

Are you saying you think it's tuning error and not valves floating?
 

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Are you saying you think it's tuning error and not valves floating?
All I'm saying is I agree with the man who built the the motor currently holding the fastest Slingshot record as well as many others (both SC and TC) over 400 RWHP and an unknown number at or over 500, as well as those who run these engines with the stock springs up to the max boost pressures the plastic intake manifold can handle.

Was it Kyle himself who suggested "valve float" at low boost on the stock limiter .... it would surprise me if it was .....

.... :bag:

.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
All I'm saying is I agree with the man who built the the motor currently holding the fastest Slingshot record as well as many others (both SC and TC) over 400 RWHP and an unknown number at or over 500, as well as those who run these engines with the stock springs up to the max boost pressures the plastic intake manifold can handle.

Was it Kyle himself who suggested "valve float" at low boost on the stock limiter .... it would surprise me if it was .....

.... :bag:

.
I'm not exactly sure who that person is... but I'm assuming it's the guys at DDM Works if that's what you're referring too.... Also not sure what all the shade is about. I'm not here bashing anyone, just want my problem resolved. And yes, it was Kyle who suggested it was valve float. I don't mind spending a couple hundred if it's going to fix the issue, but if I do this valve spring job and issue is still there (which seems like it will be according to you two), then I'm going to be aggravated at ZZP.
 

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No shade, just don't want to appear to be putting anyone down, both Dave and Kyle are great guys with lots of knowledge, experience, and a willingness to help ....

When GM was running their Sport Compact race program they didn't suggest a spring change until you exceeded the stock limiter .... they said the stock valve-train is good up to 400 hp when staying under the factory limit ....

http://www.sixthsphere.com/storage2/images/j2c6vi686d34ogo32ore.pdf

....
 

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Wow that pic is extremely helpful!!! So once the cam gears are in those positions and the bracket is bolted down, I can unbolt the cam caps and then twist the cams I assume to get the cams out of the gears and the gears will stay perfectly in place?

No it's just regular 7-8psi with the kit. My personal sling is an 18 SLR LE and it is stock and the throttle sticks all the time, what this other slingshot is doing is totally different (trying to post the video).

The slingshot that has the kit on it is a 17 SL. I don't have the pic of the back of the ECM, but I can get it come next week!

I really appreciate your help!

Tried following the link to both videos you posted and the links are not working for some reason, just keeps coming up as a page that can not be found.

Once you install the tool in the picture, make sure to use the bolts on the corner of the tool to hold the tool in place. Then remove the bolt in the center of the cams (18mm head bolt), then remove the cam caps with a 10mm socket. Once the cam caps are off, the cams will slide out the back of the cam gears. Typically when doing it here, you have to kind of wiggle the cams back and forth while pulling gently on the cams to get them to walk out. Be careful not to damage the cams and the cam "bearings" in the head. When you go to put the cams back in, make a little mark on the back of the cam gear where the key is, that will make it easier to line up the key way in the cams to the key on the cam gears. Usually we have to pry up a little on the front of the cam gear to get the cam to line up also and get everything to come together. Once you have it lined up, you can put the bolt in the front of the cam gear and use the bolt to help pull it all together also, but you need to absolutely make sure everything is lined up first. Also, pay attention to the rockers while doing this, they occasionally like to slip off of the hydraulic lash adjusters (HLA's) during the install process. Make sure to get new bolts for the front of the cam gears, those are single use and we have had them snap on us before, which leaves the bolt inside of the cam and is not fun to remove. If you need torque values for anything let us know.

Let me know if you can get a different post for the video, would love to take a look at what is going on.

Also, when you get a chance to get a pic of the back of the ECM, that will help also.

Good luck with it and let us know if there is anything we can help with,
Dave

This is what is showing up when I click on the video links -

video link.JPG
 

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Also, you may see reference to little holders for the timing chain when you remove the cams that look like this -
GM-015-2s.jpg


We have those also and used them for the first couple times we did this years ago. They really didn't seem to help much at all and we haven't used them for years now. They go inside the cylinder head and lock onto the timing chain on each side of the cylinder head to help keep tension on it. Just wanted to make sure I mentioned them incase you see them listed somewhere.

Hope that helps,
Dave
 

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You are NOT having a valve float issue. You would be the first person with this issue around here and you are running low boost compared to many others. You have a ZZP turbo kit and CBM tune issue. Which will be very hard to fix, unless you yank all that stuff off or have someone else tune the locked ECM. From friends experience, ZZP seems to like to skirt around issues and recommend more parts or remote tuning changes. With remote tuning not being an option, it would appear they are just blindly recommending more useless parts.

This post seems harsh, but ZZP has burned a couple of my friends lately on different platforms and I am not very pleased with them as a company. They have also "mis-lead" a lot of people on what their Slingshot turbo kit will actually do.

Here is what I would do...

  1. request a new updated turn from ZZP (actually comes from CBM in Cali) and see if it fixes the issue (doubt it)
  2. make sure you have the correct 2bar MAP sensor, buy the 60lb injectors, change to one stage colder spark plugs, and reach out to the other tuner in the forum (yes, there are only 2) and get a decent tune for the machine
  3. Yank everything off and sell it on ebay
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Tried following the link to both videos you posted and the links are not working for some reason, just keeps coming up as a page that can not be found.

Once you install the tool in the picture, make sure to use the bolts on the corner of the tool to hold the tool in place. Then remove the bolt in the center of the cams (18mm head bolt), then remove the cam caps with a 10mm socket. Once the cam caps are off, the cams will slide out the back of the cam gears. Typically when doing it here, you have to kind of wiggle the cams back and forth while pulling gently on the cams to get them to walk out. Be careful not to damage the cams and the cam "bearings" in the head. When you go to put the cams back in, make a little mark on the back of the cam gear where the key is, that will make it easier to line up the key way in the cams to the key on the cam gears. Usually we have to pry up a little on the front of the cam gear to get the cam to line up also and get everything to come together. Once you have it lined up, you can put the bolt in the front of the cam gear and use the bolt to help pull it all together also, but you need to absolutely make sure everything is lined up first. Also, pay attention to the rockers while doing this, they occasionally like to slip off of the hydraulic lash adjusters (HLA's) during the install process. Make sure to get new bolts for the front of the cam gears, those are single use and we have had them snap on us before, which leaves the bolt inside of the cam and is not fun to remove. If you need torque values for anything let us know.

Let me know if you can get a different post for the video, would love to take a look at what is going on.

Also, when you get a chance to get a pic of the back of the ECM, that will help also.

Good luck with it and let us know if there is anything we can help with,
Dave

This is what is showing up when I click on the video links -

View attachment 174079

Hmm very weird you can't see the videos. Here's a link to my vimeo page, see if you can view them.

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos

Thank you for the information! Major help! By the way, who do you guys use for your tunes on your slings?

I'll try and get those pics of the ECM but I know it's tuned by CBM.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Also, you may see reference to little holders for the timing chain when you remove the cams that look like this - View attachment 174081

We have those also and used them for the first couple times we did this years ago. They really didn't seem to help much at all and we haven't used them for years now. They go inside the cylinder head and lock onto the timing chain on each side of the cylinder head to help keep tension on it. Just wanted to make sure I mentioned them incase you see them listed somewhere.

Hope that helps,
Dave
Got it, so don't get them! Ahahhaha
 

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Discussion Starter #20
You are NOT having a valve float issue. You would be the first person with this issue around here and you are running low boost compared to many others. You have a ZZP turbo kit and CBM tune issue. Which will be very hard to fix, unless you yank all that stuff off or have someone else tune the locked ECM. From friends experience, ZZP seems to like to skirt around issues and recommend more parts or remote tuning changes. With remote tuning not being an option, it would appear they are just blindly recommending more useless parts.

This post seems harsh, but ZZP has burned a couple of my friends lately on different platforms and I am not very pleased with them as a company. They have also "mis-lead" a lot of people on what their Slingshot turbo kit will actually do.

Here is what I would do...

  1. request a new updated turn from ZZP (actually comes from CBM in Cali) and see if it fixes the issue (doubt it)
  2. make sure you have the correct 2bar MAP sensor, buy the 60lb injectors, change to one stage colder spark plugs, and reach out to the other tuner in the forum (yes, there are only 2) and get a decent tune for the machine
  3. Yank everything off and sell it on ebay
I talked to ZZP and like you said, they're consistent on it being a valve spring issue...whether they're right or wrong, I'm going to install the springs and if it fixes it, great, if not, well then I'll get on the phone and demand some answers and revisions from them.

I know I have the correct Map bar sensor as I installed the whole kit and the stock sensor vs the one that came in the kit were different (I guess assuming it's the right sensor, but I know it's not a stock sensor). Got a link to the sprak plugs needed for this? I don't mind getting a set of NGK 2 step colder plugs and throwing them in. Wasn't really planning on doing the injectors but if it will help, then I'll do it. Who is the other tuner? Sorry for all the questions as I'm fairly new to the slingshot community especially boosted ones.

Why would I yank the kit off and sell it? The quality of the kit is top notch and all great parts. Other then the turbo, everything else is name brand stuff that is all well known and widely used by big tuning companies.

I need to get an afr gauge put on this one to see if it's going lean when its doing this throttle issue thing and I think that can help me explain to CBM where the issue is occurring.

Thanks for the info!
 
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