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I drove it.
 
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I drove it also very fast but needs a better tune. One thing I would change is placement of the intake filter put it in the engine bay instead of it in passenger side wheel well since I have to drive it in the rain. Seems it would always be wet. I would buy it if the price is right. I hope it does not cost more than the current turbo setups
 

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I don't know if turbos are a gift from god, but I'm pretty sure that for any build a person can do, the better bet is on the turbo vs SC. The main advantage for superchargers in the last 5 years has been cost and ease of installation, and if those two advantages aren't present then its a no-brainer to go with a turbo setup.

Cost being no object, superchargers lost the "forced induction race" and anyone thinking differently just isn't keeping up with technology. Even in the last 10 years where people tried to combine superchargers and turbos to minimize turbo lag, have ended up with the forced induction equivalent of the CFL light bulb (should have skipped to LED). Electric assistance can now eliminate that lag and is even more efficient still.

The supercharger is dead except to the faithful, and if we are lucky, the budget minded.
Some of this is gray area jookyone....
In drag race applications I would tend to agree, road race cars a def maybe, but for street cars I certainly prefer a S/C, regardless which one mathematics says is "better."
Ive owned both and I prefer a S/C. Remember, we are talking street applications where the hp ceiling is much lower. If we are talking pure race set ups then again I might tend to lean turbo.
If the super charger is so "dead" why are so many major manufacturers using them, building some of the biggest HP cars on the planet, and warrantying them for 100k miles?
Maybe because they work?
Bottom line I just prefer the power delivery, thats just me, right, wrong, or somewhere in the middle.
 

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I think we are all on the same page here. I will also be pretty excited about a supercharger kit IF it falls into the two advantages they are known for: price and ease of install. If it's the same price, then the same money is better spent on a turbo for me.
 

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I think we are all on the same page here. I will also be pretty excited about a supercharger kit IF it falls into the two advantages they are known for: price and ease of install. If it's the same price, then the same money is better spent on a turbo for me.
Not that the turbos around here are a bargain...lol
 

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I hope no one is making the assumption that we are anti-turbo, we like all forms of forced induction. Unfortunately though a lot of people have not kept up with the advancements in superchargers and keep thinking of them as the old inefficient units from the 50-60's. The unit that we are using on the Slingshot has an adiabatic efficiency in the mid 70% range through much of the operating pressures and flows that we are using on that engine. Which easily matches or is better than that of most turbos and even the newest Borg Warner EFR turbos from Borg Warner.

Jookyone - those are some interesting points that you bring up and from our experience with the 2.4L ecotec since 2006, we have seen different results than that. Typically superchargers have been more expensive than turbos for a couple reasons. A turbo setup is actually much easier to engineer, design and produce than a supercharger kit. Although both kits have to worry about larger injectors, plumbing to and from the intercooler, etc. the turbo kit is easier to design. The reason is that in order to install the turbo, a manifold has to be built, down pipe and some water and oil lines made. All of this can be built pretty easily as a one off and made with pretty common tooling. The supercharger kits are much more work to design since a new belt system has to be engineered. Not only to mount the supercharger, but also to be able to route a separate belt with auto tensioner through the existing engine bay. Also the belt and supercharger have to line up in 3 different planes to make sure the belt will track properly and not destroy the belt. We have designed several supercharger kits now and also several turbo kits and I would much rather design turbo kits, it is much easier.

Ad for the detonation comment, I can once again only comment on what we have seen here with turbo's and superchargers on the 2.4l Ecotec. We can always run more timing with a supercharger than we can with the a turbo at the same boost pressures and power at the wheels. Turbo's will always cause an exhaust restriction. That exhaust restriction will always cause the pressure in the exhaust manifold to be higher than a naturally aspirated or supercharged engine at the same power and boost pressures. Once again, maybe on other engines this is not the case, but on the 2.4L or 2.0L Ecotec we have seen this every time.

This debate will never end - turbo vs. supercharger - most people don't really care they just want more power. There are some people on both sides though that will continue to try to convince someone that one is better than the other, in the end they are both fun and both have pro's and con's.

Hope that helps,
Dave
 

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Also turbos allow you to put a duck call on the blow off valve. No price can be put on that.
Lol, we had a customer come in with one of those once, it was pretty fun.

We will have to sneak one on the supercharged prototype and see what the owner thinks.
 

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I drove it also very fast but needs a better tune. One thing I would change is placement of the intake filter put it in the engine bay instead of it in passenger side wheel well since I have to drive it in the rain. Seems it would always be wet. I would buy it if the price is right. I hope it does not cost more than the current turbo setups
I completely agree about the tune, right now it is running on an AEM piggyback that was tuned in about an hour and was just checked to make sure it was safe, definitely far from optimal. Looking forward to getting one out to be tuned by bob, should make more power and be even smoother.

The production kit will have a shield over the filter, but we wanted to test and see how it ran without one and see the worst case with it.
 

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Well thanks Rab. Out of every informative post you've ever made, this one was probably the best.:rolleyes::D
Its just a little early for the supercharged version. They will get it dialed in. And when they do it will definitely be a contender in the fight for power. Right now its kinda like having a machine gun with a sticking trigger. You know something wild is about to happen but your not sure exactly when or how much excitement your going to get. It had a ton of power up on the top side. Which is bass akwards from what you would expect from a supercharger. Literally you are driving an air pump all the time so that you don't have to wait on boost. Right now (which will soon be fixed im sure) you have to turn it up in rpm to get something to happen. It won't be long till the owner of the one here at the smokies event has his dialed in. Dave at DDM was just being nice from what i was told and let him have it so that he could come and enjoy the event with us.


Now with that said. I will always "personally" feel that Hahn turbos are the way to go. But I'm sure the Alpha bunch feel theirs is the best. I tried to be a good advertisement for Hahn on this trip. If I come off to much as a show off I apologize. I just really love what Hahn has done. Also Bob at MEFI is a tuning magician. He also had mad skills. When you put Bill Hahns product in the hands of Bob I can promise its an adrenaline rush for sure.
 

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Its just a little early for the supercharged version. They will get it dialed in. And when they do it will definitely be a contender in the fight for power. Right now its kinda like having a machine gun with a sticking trigger. You know something wild is about to happen but your not sure exactly when or how much excitement your going to get. It had a ton of power up on the top side. Which is bass akwards from what you would expect from a supercharger. Literally you are driving an air pump all the time so that you don't have to wait on boost. Right now (which will soon be fixed im sure) you have to turn it up in rpm to get something to happen. It won't be long till the owner of the one here at the smokies event has his dialed in. Dave at DDM was just being nice from what i was told and let him have it so that he could come and enjoy the event with us.


Now with that said. I will always "personally" feel that Hahn turbos are the way to go. But I'm sure the Alpha bunch feel theirs is the best. I tried to be a good advertisement for Hahn on this trip. If I come off to much as a show off I apologize. I just really love what Hahn has done. Also Bob at MEFI is a tuning magician. He also had mad skills. When you put Bill Hahns product in the hands of Bob I can promise its an adrenaline rush for sure.
How is yours running with the 2 bar MAP?
 

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Seems simple to me:

Turbocharger:
+ Makes more power than a stock Slingshot can use.
+ Runs off waste gases, back-pressure loss compensated for by removing cat and restrictive muffler. Very efficient through entire RPM range.
+ Low-boost applications such as the Slingshot can use a compressor with very minimal lag.
+ Makes the majority of power in upper RPM range, minimizing engine wear during normal driving.
+ Blow-off valve pop sounds awesome.
+ Friggin' awesome.
- Oil cooled, adding heat to the engine.
- Intercooler can rob radiator of cooling ability, adding heat to the engine.
- Blow-off valve pop sounds less awesome over time (at least to the neighbors) and is best muffled to some degree (varies by driver).
- Needs higher RPM regularly to stay clean, otherwise can become unbalanced from carbon buildup and bearing failure results (dependant on the system design).
- Slingshot engine and drive-train should be rebuilt to take advantage of additional power (over 7lbs. of boost).

Supercharger:
+ No exhaust restriction = more power.
+ Belt-drive allows for power over the entire RPM range, and a lot of it!
+ Over-the-top addition that's friggin' awesome.
- More fuel use & engine wear during normal driving (it's always compressing, more cylinder and ring wear result)
- Slingshot engine and drive-train should be rebuilt to take advantage of additional (insane) power.
 

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I am one of those people who see benefits in using either the turbo or the super charger depending on the individual person. I myself prefer a super charger for the street. But would settle for a turbo if no super chargers were available
 

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Seems simple to me:

Turbocharger:
+ Makes more power than a stock Slingshot can use.
+ Runs off waste gases, back-pressure loss compensated for by removing cat and restrictive muffler. Very efficient through entire RPM range.
+ Low-boost applications such as the Slingshot can use a compressor with very minimal lag.
+ Makes the majority of power in upper RPM range, minimizing engine wear during normal driving.
- Oil cooled, adding heat to the engine.
- Intercooler can rob radiator of cooling ability, adding heat to the engine.
- Slingshot engine and drive-train should be rebuilt to take advantage of additional power (over 7lbs. of boost).

Supercharger:
+ No exhaust restriction = more power.
+ Belt-drive allows for power over the entire RPM range, and a lot of it!
- More fuel use & engine wear during normal driving.
- Slingshot engine and drive-train should be rebuilt to take advantage of additional (insane) power.
This is a pretty comprehensive list but you need to add parasitic power loss to the supercharger list. It requires horsepower to turn the belt. I don't believe there is a magic formula for this loss, but it has a lot to do with the supercharger type. Is it a screw (best), roots (old), or centrifugal (looks like a belt driven turbo "snail")?
 

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@jookyone,

I mentioned "more fuel use & engine wear during normal driving" because there's no power loss, there's more low-end power than stock/turbo, to what degree depends on the turbo setup. There is an efficiency loss in the low RPM range vs. stock/turbo (and more fuel consumption), and an efficiency gain in the high RPM range vs. stock/turbo (depending...).

One can consider superchargers "parasitic" at low RPM, I simply figure it's one of the associated costs related to making power, similar to larger displacement engines consistently having lower MPG than smaller displacement engines. The inverse is if I fully depress the right floor pedal on a small engine it makes a "AHHHHHHH!" complaint, but with a large engine --> I <-- make a loud "FUUUUU..." sound. At least mentally. And I probably don't have time to complete the thought... :hungry:
 

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Seems simple to me:

Turbocharger:
+ Makes more power than a stock Slingshot can use.
+ Runs off waste gases, back-pressure loss compensated for by removing cat and restrictive muffler. Very efficient through entire RPM range.
+ Low-boost applications such as the Slingshot can use a compressor with very minimal lag.
+ Makes the majority of power in upper RPM range, minimizing engine wear during normal driving.
+ Blow-off valve pop sounds awesome.
+ Friggin' awesome.
- Oil cooled, adding heat to the engine.
- Intercooler can rob radiator of cooling ability, adding heat to the engine.
- Blow-off valve pop sounds less awesome over time (at least to the neighbors) and is best muffled to some degree (varies by driver).
- Slingshot engine and drive-train should be rebuilt to take advantage of additional power (over 7lbs. of boost).

Supercharger:
+ No exhaust restriction = more power.
+ Belt-drive allows for power over the entire RPM range, and a lot of it!
+ Over-the-top addition that's friggin' awesome.
- More fuel use & engine wear during normal driving.
- Slingshot engine and drive-train should be rebuilt to take advantage of additional (insane) power.
Not sure I would agree so much on engine wear. If youre cruising along at 2600 rpms youre cruising along at 2600 rpms.
Yeah, I know the engine has to work a little harder mathematically to spin the S/C, but in your street car the engine works just a little harder to spin your air conditioning compressor too.
I like both forms of forced induction too.
 

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How is yours running with the 2 bar MAP?
Unbelievable. Its absolutely perfect. It registers A/F perfectly at any altitude and idles perfect. Just a beast when you mash the "go faster" pedal. I have had the best time with everyone up at the gathering and the perfect running SS has made it even better. I have to say thanks to you and your staff for shipping one of the magic ingredients to me so fast. Im sure it won't be long before everyone has this magic component......:D
 
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